2 DOGE staffers say ‘no’ regrets for people losing income: Depositions
One 12 months after Elon Musk started an unprecedented attempt to get rid of swaths of the federal authorities, newly launched deposition movies are offering a never-before-seen take a look at two of the people accountable for the biggest mass termination of federal grants within the National Endowment for the Humanities’ historical past.
According to the depositions and different supplies launched as a part of a civil lawsuit associated to the funding cuts, the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) relied on ChatGPT to determine greater than $100 million in grants associated to range, fairness, and inclusion (DEI) that have been later cancelled.
When President Donald Trump returned to workplace final January, he empowered Musk to slash federal spending as a lead adviser within the newly created DOGE. Within days, all companies have been directed to place DEI workers on depart and associated applications have been shuttered.
American Council of Learned Societies, the American Historical Association, and the Modern Language Association. – PHOTO: Nathan Cavanaugh talks about Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) cuts throughout a deposition on Jan. 23, 2026.
In prolonged depositions, two DOGE staff — Justin Fox and Nate Cavanaugh — defended the trouble to chop “useless agencies” as a part of DOGE’s try to scale back the federal deficit.
“You don’t regret that people might have lost important income… to support their lives?” an lawyer requested Cavanaugh in regards to the grant cancellations.
“No. I think it was more important to reduce the federal deficit from $2 trillion to close to zero,” Cavanaugh stated.
“Did you reduce the federal deficit?” the lawyer requested.
“No, we didn’t,” Cavanaugh stated.
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With backgrounds in tech and finance, neither man labored in authorities previous to becoming a member of DOGE final 12 months. Cavanaugh stated they initially decided which grants could possibly be reduce primarily based on whether or not they included sure phrases — like “DEI, DEIA, Equity, Inclusion, BIPAC, LGBTQ” — though the ultimate determination about cuts was as much as the top of particular person companies.
“Do you think it’s inappropriate in any way that someone in their 20s with no experience with grants for the federal government was making personal judgment calls about what grants to cancel?” an lawyer requested.
“Um, no. I don’t think it’s inappropriate,” Cavanaugh stated, arguing that he didn’t want formal training or expertise to make knowledgeable judgments.
“So presumably you read some of these books that would have informed you on how to cancel a grant based on DEI,” the lawyer requested.
“Um, I didn’t read a book, um, on how to discern whether a grant includes DEI or not. I read the actual description of the actual grant,” Cavanaugh stated.
Fox stated they as a substitute turned to OpenAI’s ChatGPT to assist sift by means of the 1000’s of grants awarded by the National Endowment for the Humanities.
According to courtroom filings, the lads prompted ChatGPT by asking, “From the perspective of someone looking to identify DEI grants, does this involve DEI? Respond factually in less than 120 characters. Begin with ‘Yes.’ or. ‘No.’ followed by a brief explanation.· Do not use ‘this initiative’ or ‘this description’ in your response.”
American Council of Learned Societies, the American Historical Association, and the Modern Language Association. – PHOTO: Justin Fox discusses federal authorities cuts made by DOGE throughout a Jan. 28, 2026 deposition.
Fox was repeatedly pressed by attorneys to elucidate sure funding selections, corresponding to defunding a language middle — described as a “wasteful, noncritical spend” — or initiatives associated to Black historical past and civil rights.
“Why is a documentary about Holocaust survivors DEI?” an lawyer requested.
“It’s a gender-based story that’s inherently discriminatory to focus on this specific group,” Fox stated.
According to the depositions and authorized paperwork, the lads didn’t present a transparent definition for DEI or take extra steps to make sure the choices weren’t discriminatory — arguing it was not crucial as a result of AI software program was not the ultimate decision-maker.
“Did you do anything to ensure that ChatGPT’s perception of DEI as applied here wouldn’t discriminate on the basis of sex?” an lawyer requested, prompting one other objection.
“It didn’t matter,” Fox stated.
DOGE’s efforts in a number of federal companies and departments final 12 months confronted opposition and lawsuits, with critics elevating considerations in regards to the group’s effectiveness and its entry to delicate knowledge.
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Both Fox and Cavanaugh defended the funding selections, arguing the cuts have been crucial to scale back the deficit, though they by no means achieved their objectives.
“Did you ever find it problematic that you were, alongside Nate, short-listing for termination projects that had hits on words like Black, homosexual, LGBTQ+?” an lawyer requested, prompting an objection and following up query.
“We were identifying wasteful spend in the government based on administration direction. That was the whole reason we were there, was to find savings,” Fox stated, though he acknowledged the deficit was by no means lowered.
Their work chopping grants from the National Endowment for the Humanities was memorialized in a social media publish by DOGE, which vowed that any future grants could be “merit-based and awarded to non-DEI, pro-America causes.”
According to the depositions, a few of the saved funds have been spent on the National Garden of American Heroes — a sculpture backyard to commemorate the nation’s 250th anniversary.
