‘House of the Dragon’ Showrunner on the Season 3 Ending, Series Finale Plans

Warning: Major spoilers forward for “House of the Dragon” season three.

As season three of “House of the Dragon” involves a detailed with attribute hearth and blood, showrunner Ryan Condal is already anticipating scrutiny of the subsequent one.

In an interview forward of Sunday’s season three finale, Condal confirmed that HBO’s tentpole “Game of Thrones” spinoff will finish with its fourth season. As Condal and his group map out a last eight-episode arc for the Targaryen dragonlords embroiled in a civil conflict, the franchise’s historical past and its fiercely devoted followers loom giant.

“It’s hard enough to make a season finale,” Condal advised Business Insider. “Try making a series finale that tries to be all things to all people, and also have a distinct point of view and thing to say and place to leave off all the characters.”

Based on George R. R. Martin’s fantasy book “Fire & Blood,” “House of the Dragon” follows the dynastic wrestle between Rhaenyra Targaryen (Emma D’Arcy) and her youthful half-brother, Aegon II (Tom Glynn-Carney), which finally devastates the royal household and decimates the dragon inhabitants.

In the season three finale, Queen Rhaenyra descends additional into tyranny and messianic delusions, whereas Aegon II rises from the literal ashes with a resurrected dragon and a plot to retake the Iron Throne. Elsewhere, Rhaenyra’s Hightower enemies and constant allies alike are massacred in the big-budget, game-changing Battle of Tumbleton; a dangerous dragonrider deserts her trigger; and a beloved former queen plummets to her death.

With a lot to unpack (and much more dying and destruction to anticipate in season 4), Business Insider caught up with Condal to debate season three’s largest scenes, central themes, and the one character he discovered particularly arduous to kill.

On executing the Battle of Tumbleton and increasing Ormund’s character for the display screen

Aside from the Battle of the Gullet, have been there any scenes from the guide that have been additional difficult or labor-intensive to convey to life?

Ryan Condal: The two this season positively have been the premiere and the finale — the two mega-battles. Each was its personal problem in its personal proper. But these have been positively the two that received the most consideration in phrases of planning, consternation, assets, anguish, despair, all that, after which hopefully victory at the finish.

What have been the specific challenges of filming the Tumbleton battle?

Unlike the Gullet, which was an engineering problem of, “How the hell are we actually going to do this?” this was extra of, “What can the schedule and the budget absorb in terms of the ambitions of the script?” So that was extra of a basic negotiation between artistic ambition and what’s really sensible and may occur, whereas holding onto the subjective factor of the storytelling — which means all of the POVs of the characters that we’re with down there on the floor in Tumbleton.

One of the issues I’m proudest of is how we have been capable of convey so many POVs that we have been following throughout the season all collectively on this one place, after which mix them in a means that felt earned and natural: Black and Green coming collectively and interacting with one another in a means that was paying off these eight episode-long arcs that we had been exploring throughout season three.

An enormous half of that narrative payoff is watching Ormund Hightower get his comeuppance. In the guide, he does not get a lot characterization past being a army chief. Tell me about increasing his character for the present and giving him a lot texture — the spiritual fanaticism, the odor sensitivity, all these particulars.

That’s the nice enjoyable of an adaptation of a guide like “Fire & Blood.” Because a lot of it’s a sketch, notably in the character realm, simply since you’re not inside the characters’ heads the means you might be in the “A Song of Ice and Fire” novels.

Those are all written in POV, whereas this guide is written — it is an anti-POV. It’s written in the POV of these three historians who’re kind of arguing over what occurred when to whom, and over whose account finally ends up being the extra correct account. So you simply do not get the inner ideas of these characters, which creates a ton of latitude to be artistic and create, and to honor the guide.

Ormund, we all know, is a superb army chief. He led the Hightower host. He was with Daeron the Daring, and he deliberate and tried to win valiantly on this very epic, table-turning Battle of Tumbleton, after which finally got here up brief in the finish.

So we knew all of that, after which we have been very free to design a personality round him. And it actually opened us as much as with the ability to go in and do one thing actually attention-grabbing and “Thrones”-y, I feel, in a means, the place he is flawed and complex and this grasp operator who has two core weaknesses — one being one thing he can not help, which is his oversensitivity to odor and texture and all that, after which two being his rage points, which perhaps is one thing that he might do one thing about with a bit remedy and breath work.

I like the throughline that begins chronologically with Ormund, reappears in “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms,” after which pays off at the starting of “Game of Thrones,” which is that this anti-Targaryen, anti-dragon suspicion breeding amongst the folks of the realm. Did you contemplate this theme whereas writing his character?

Yes, very a lot. It was kind of constructed into who Ormund was.

This is a theme that we have arrange that you’ll see persevering with to play out over the last chapter, the last acts of our present — this concept of the Faith.

Essentially, most of the realm holds to the Faith. It’s the Catholicism of this period. And then you’ve got the Targaryens, who are available in as this pagan race, who consider in blood magic and hearth and their very own godlike supremacy. Their gods are gigantic nuclear lizards you could odor, contact, see, and listen to.

I beloved what Ira [Parker] did with that very subtly in “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms,” as a result of regardless that we did not actually discuss it, it was clearly in the ether — this concept that the Targaryens have been, by rather a lot of folks, appeared on with worry and suspicion as a result of of their outsize energy. And their alienness, their otherness, the means that they marry amongst themselves, and so they do not maintain to the traditions that everyone else holds to — traditions and morals that everyone else in the realm holds to. So there’s a pure divide there.

On the ‘pure parallels’ between Rhaenyra and Daenerys

I seen a parallel between the speech Rhaenyra provides at the Sept and the final speech Daenerys gives in the final season of “Game of Thrones,” when she feels she’s fulfilling her objective, however in actuality, she’s doomed. Was that intentional?

We’re definitely conscious of it. I feel it is necessary that the present has echoes of the authentic sequence in it, in some methods, in order that they continue to be related. Because they’re very a lot related.

This is the cause that Daenerys is begging for a crown throughout the Narrow Sea, and the dragons are all lifeless. Because of this story. So I feel these connections are necessary to make to remind people who these two durations in historical past are intimately related with each other.

Daenerys and Rhaenyra discover themselves on parallel tracks, in a means, as dragon queens which are making an attempt to determine their very own legitimacy and their vacation spot to take a seat on the throne; there are going to be pure parallels that seem in these tales.

I additionally seen echoes of Daenerys burning King’s Landing in the scene of Ulf burning Tumbleton. They’re each the blood of the dragon, of course, with that fiery mood — however with Ulf, we get much more context and buildup for that call. Did that happen to you whereas adapting Ulf’s flip, or did it inspire you to offer him extra character improvement forward of that scene?

I feel the means all of it got here collectively, and due to Tom Bennett’s unbelievable efficiency, it looks like a extremely, actually subtly drawn and actually earned arc that — regardless that it is tragic and horrifying — feels fully earned in the finish.

Ulf will not be an ideal individual with a excessive ethical character, however he was additionally simply one other man who was having fun with his time at the pub till the Targaryens drew him right into a world he was not ready to be in, after which sat him on a nuclear weapon and mentioned, “Go win this war for us” — and promised him all these items they by no means delivered.

So in a means, everyone on all sides — Rhaenyra, Daemon, definitely Ormund, the feudal construction of the political system on this specific time and period — are all accountable for Ulf as a lot as Ulf is accountable for Ulf. I feel it is an ideal payoff for that character over his two-season arc to convey us up to now. And I feel it is, once more, horrifying, however completely credible.

On Helaena’s dying, Aegon’s underdog arc, and Daeron’s relationship with Alicent

Which dying did you discover most gutting to put in writing or movie this season?

It was Helaena. I like Phia Saban a lot as an individual that she’s simply such a pleasure and a presence to have round set. And look, I actually love my forged. I’m very lucky to work with all of them. But there’s simply one thing about Phia and the character that she performs that is so pleasant and harmless.

It’s virtually like she’s a personality from a unique fantasy story that is been trapped inside this one. Helaena had no ambitions exterior of simply elevating her chickens and gathering her bugs and noting the pure world — to have her additionally dragged down into the abyss that’s the Game of Thrones was actually, actually, actually tragic and arduous to observe and arduous to dramatize, after which arduous to see being dramatized for all these causes.

And I’m simply actually unhappy to say goodbye to her, simply because we love her and having her round.

Over the course of the sequence, which actor’s efficiency has stunned you the most, or differed the most from the way you initially envisioned their character coming alive onscreen?

There’s so many. God, it is so arduous. I want I might do an interview on everyone.

I’m so impressed with Tom Glynn-Carney throughout this season, as a result of for comparatively little display screen time, he performs this very, very central position in the season, and did such an unbelievable job in promoting this arc of any individual that we discover in the throes of opium withdrawal. And then at the finish, you are rooting for him to get his dragon again after which go problem the essential character of the present for the throne together with his brother. Batman and Robin get again collectively at the finish.

I simply really feel like the means that Tom bought that — and the suggestions that I’ve gotten from folks watching the present, like, “I didn’t think you could do it, but I’m rooting for Aegon now” — is such a praise to, I feel, the storytelling, but in addition that is a credit score to Tom’s unbelievable efficiency throughout the season.

I need to ask you about the fan idea that Ormund was dyeing Daeron’s hair in order that he resembles a Hightower greater than a Targaryen. Is there weight to that?

I do not need to say something definitively. I feel it is a very attention-grabbing dialogue. Daeron’s hair color took up most likely extra dialogue than any single character’s hair coloration did in the whole making of the present.

I simply assume it poses rather a lot of attention-grabbing questions. If you presume that that’s really Daeron’s hair coloration — and that he is the one which simply appeared precisely like his mom — the query that was most attention-grabbing to me was, “Oh my God, is that why Alicent sent him away?” In a time when she was so in want of portray the image of the good blonde Targaryen household, with the ability to stand on her soapbox and say that Rhaenyra’s children are plain and illegitimate, and that they are not trueborn with Laenor, and so they’re unsuited to take the throne: “Look at my perfect Targaryen children that I sacrificed so much to have with a man who’s 25 years older than me, who’s literally rotting to pieces.”

It calls again to a previous kind of Alicent that is very totally different from the Alicent that we know today.

Also, if we assume that to be true, we might see her virtually rewriting historical past in actual time — telling Rhaenyra that she despatched Daeron away to guard him, and convincing herself of that.

So a lot of reminiscence is emotion, proper? It’s an emotional reminiscence. It’s not the reminiscence of really what occurred. It’s your reminiscence of the emotion that you just skilled at the time. And I can completely see Alicent actually believing a unique model of that story, now that she’s been by way of all of these horrors and tragedies.

On the ‘scrutiny’ he expects for the sequence finale and the stress of ‘touchdown the airplane’

With a narrative like this, offered in the guide as a retrospective historical past, there are a number of doable endpoints. There’s Rhaenyra’s dying or Aegon’s dying, however even then, the realm is not precisely at peace. How do you strategy the last season of “House of the Dragon” as a showrunner seeking to craft a satisfying arc in a restricted quantity of episodes?

It could be an understatement to say that ending a big style present comes with scrutiny round it.

We’ve talked about this being form of a World War II film: There are a lot of World War II films that exist the place you inform the story inside this better conflict, however the curtain drops in some unspecified time in the future in the story, and it isn’t essentially with Japan’s give up or Hitler dying in the bunker — these huge form of endpoints the place you possibly can say World War II actually ended. You’re telling the story inside the story.

So, on no account to remark in any respect on how we’re planning on ending this, however I feel that was the trick. Because “Fire & Blood” is a decades-spanning historical past, the query is admittedly extra, “Where do you drop the curtain on this particular story?”

We’re telling the story of the Dance of the Dragons — Rhaenyra’s, Daemon’s, Alicent’s, Aegon’s, Aemond’s, Helaena’s story. At what level do you drop the curtain on this, [in a way] that feels satisfying and such as you’ve advised an entire story, but in addition that leaves sure issues open-ended? Telling the viewers, deliberately, that historical past marches on. We know that the Targaryens reside on and rule on from right here, for a lot of, a few years, earlier than they’re lastly deposed in Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark’s rebellion.

As you intend subsequent season’s arc, what feels most formidable to you about tackling the subsequent section of this story?

I feel it is touchdown the airplane, truthfully. It’s a really arduous factor to do.

We’ve seen rather a lot of huge sequence come to an finish over the previous couple of years. You need to do service to the sequence, the story that you’ve got been telling on a artistic degree — but in addition, you’ve got all these followers which are watching this, whether or not they’re guide readers or not, which are tremendously invested in the factor that you’ve got made, and so they’ve come to know and love these characters, or love reviling these characters. Whatever the case could also be, they’ve spent rather a lot of time on this.

There is a wrestle to say goodbye. And I feel that is the place rather a lot of the debate, or no matter it’s, comes into the image, as a result of I feel rather a lot of folks simply merely don’t desire it to finish, and so they all have their concepts of the way it ought to, or what a satisfying ending is.

So I feel for us, it is actually, how will we take these eight hours that we now have left — eight chapters that we now have left — and inform a compelling, satisfying story that ties up as many of the threads as we’re capable of, but in addition leaves with kind of wistful open-endedness at the finish of it to make you yearn for extra, in a great way? That’s the factor we’re aiming for.

I at all times say the hardest factor about making a present like that is the first season after which the final episode, as a result of wrapping it up, you are going to be judged on how you allow the factor.

I overlook who mentioned this, I’m simply paraphrasing, however the greatest endings are completely inevitable, however fully stunning. And that is the gold customary that we’re striving for.

This interview has been condensed and edited for size and readability.

“House of the Dragon” season 3 is streaming in full on HBO Max.